"the willis report" needs a special investigation into personal medical investigation. it all starts mnore. we shall see. tomorrow night. >> government against the little guy. >> you never thought working on his own property would cost him. >> please dante i have worked so hard for. >> they said they want to help the little guy. >> but the support comes with strings. >> investing in $200,000 to apply for the permit that never arrived. >> so many have been stifled >> they may have not even thought about coming into this city. >> they also stifle ways to get around town. >> why can't everyone? >> because bureaucrats are against the little guys. tonight.

john: do you wan to create something, build a business or invent something new? you better be sure you understand all these rules. 170,000 pages of em. the amount of federal regulation on the books as of today. if you break one of these rules government can wck your life but when these were passed some believed it wasecessary to make us safer or make the marketplace more fair and so they keep passing more. thousands of new pages every ar. doesn't any politician see there is a problem with that? finally for the first time in my career some politicians get it. one is the new senator from wisconsin and ron johnson.

why did you get it? >> certainly i've lived my life under regulations of the private sector so i saw the form the government could do with business and job creation in those that obama says he wants to protect. govement regulation is necessary, it can be helpful but far too often it flies in the face of common sense and of course, we need to be more conceed about free societies of the all-powerful government that can ruin lives and that is what i point* out to is the victims of goverent. jo: we will talk about when it is necessary by your backgrnd may explain why you care about this. you like so many politicians they were not a lawyer by trade by you were in the plastic -- plastics business >> i cannot imagine your regulaons but you saw how

many bureaucrats could torture you. and coming day after day and what government regulators don't understand is a law of diminishing returns know they may be appropriate but it goes well beyond common sense and does harm to businesses which means it does harm to job creation and real people. >> with the victims of government web site when man from granite city illinois who finally took action. >> granite city illinois suffered severe flooding since the 1950's. more than once the white house to clear the area a disaster and the court issued study after study after study b yet they did nothing. >> a man decided to take a bold step he never thought working on his own property would cost him almost everything.

>> what do you mean? >> he almost went bankrupt he could not develop the land over 23 years. >> you going to explain when he tried to obey the government's regulations the epa told him he needed to get the permit. >> he invested another $200,000 to apply for this peit 40 years ago and the permit nev arrivedfor 23 years later after buying the down at the end of his street he is on the verge of bankruptcy. what government does government intrusion make? for steve and his family, everything he. hn: more than one dozen years waiting for the permit we calthe corps of engineers they said we followed correct policy and procedures to enforce the law of law and worked extensively with him an hour partner encies. they are comfortable with

the slow death. >> absolutely thr written to give regulators all the power and they take the power. even though he did everything right he got the permitand tried to comply with every rle and regulation and he did. but there is always room for the regulators that is what is so absurdly and inight studies the cockpit -- the core recommended turning into a lake or a channel to mitigate foding and if they did it would cost $4 million he did it for $100,000 and the flooding did stop but then the coroner came back to say that w was a wetland you turned a wetland into a la shame on you then they started to charge him that is the problem with the all-powerful government. americans are out the government's mercy and become the victims and we see that time and time again across the agencies. john: you said there are

some things that need regulation. what? what does the fed need to regulate >> food and drug safety, a vehicle and transportation safety we do have to monitor planes in the sky. i think most americans are environmentalists and some common-sense environmental regulations make sense but when you have the epa that regulates that gets it down to 75 parts per million successfully that i guess you have the ozone department that says we completed that now what should we do? let'not get down is 65 and it cost $1 trillion over 10 years it just gets beyond the point* of diminishing returns and government is not very good to interject any common sense in terms of what it does it just follows the rules and regulators and their job is regulating things.

at great harm to theconomy and individuals. >> good luck with your victims of government campaign. hopefully other politicians will pay attentionut we have groups like flow the web site said they are devoted to liberating the entrepreneurial spirit. michael strong is the ceo of flow and a large banner himself and also his wife magatte wade and you learned about this with a charter school? >> it to create innovation in the 36 best in the country >> and in new mexico. >> but we were constantly attacked by regulators at 1. the toilet roll holders

were 6 inches too low and threatened to shut down the school it was a direct attack to shut this down so they sent the regulators. >> you did not have the right file folders? >> it might have been a it you run a skin-care company? you are from senator paul it is a good part of america mo of the african is worse >> it is comforting for most people in the makeup room and was talking to a lady she was like really we'll talk a regulations in africa ? i didn't think there was enough regulation i said it is the opposite. we have so many regulations we are strangling. john: just guarding a business is impossible to get 1,000 permits? >> take the situation of

cenacle you have tder 12 entities you have to go to to get things done and it each level it is one more room to block to get a bribe which is a delay. also the cost here in 10 minus i could set up the elsie and sitng in the mfort of newark state does and it is done in delaware. >> that is more friendly do business is it is done almo freeo do it but in senegal you are talng months and months of operations and thousands of miles going office to office and a few thousand dollars. not everybody can do that. john: one more modern accessible example is ebay. >> they wanted to license it

as if it was a real auction dirt. john: it already existed. >> but in france you have to have a license because it is an auction it took much longer to get ebay going in france because of this. john: three years of disputes. >> you don't have time to mess around and now it is the largest economy on earth and had every country had these obstacles we may not have the day which would be extraordinary. john: the assumption in america these regulations areeeded to protect consumers from your enttepreneurial agreed in to protect us from the big business. >> in every case they use it to keep the small guys out. >> they are happy if it keeps small entrepreneurs like you out >> absolutely. again i fight the with the

national labor organization in a countryike senegal it is literally impossible for me to fire an employee. whether they are doing their job or not, the combatant road to get rid of the employee who is stealing from y're not doing their work. it is impossible. john: because the labor unions he persuaded the government to pass laws to say that you must show documentation? >> no. the laws are so complated that before you can fire anyone, it is almost impossible to fire anyone gally without having to pay which raises the cost of doing business. the result is if i cannot fi you iannot hire you. it is that simple. john: thank you.

new ways to save money when traveling. also to earn money from their own house.

john: wendy rob and a

professional makeup artist doing make up for tv shows she has worked on bernie mac and billy crystal's make up as well as the rock and has taught other people but now nevada bureaucrats have told you that yo better get a teaching license if you're going to teach people how to make up immediately or we will find yyu thousands of dollars and tim keller the institute of justice by back. this came as a surprise? >> i received a phone call from the state board that they would be finding me if i kept my school open and i would be subject to several fines if i did not close down to become a cosmetology school. john: becoming school you had a little store you had to expand it to have 5,000

square feet of space? >> and basically said you can teach make up you are in violation by teaching make up and i have to open a cosmetology school that would cause me thousands and maybe 100,000 or more. john: driers, shampoo old bulls and stuff that you do not use. this is not unusual? >> unfortunately it is not. often see the states giving state boards tremendous authority to enforce laws ganda agency itself controls the boards have the vested interests to keep the threats out of the market. john: when we passed the nevada state board they did not call back but we did reach the president of the national interstate council of state board of cosmetology and without a license and without training -- training we will have

individual spreading disease you will spread disease. >> as bernie mac would say it is a bunch of bull. what i d is completely different. i teach how to do a forward make up and television and print and films nothing to do with cosmetology. have worked with matt damon and i have been a makeup artist over 25 years i have a teachi credential from private post secondary i am not fly by night. john: they have shut you down. >> it is unfortunate. based on the fines in the rules and regulations and cost me over one headed thousand dollars at let. >> that we will open her back up there is simply no reason force wendy to comply with the cosmetology

regulations to cents but i sense the problem -- public is against just 82 percent of the people id if the state stop the licensing safety would decline. >> that is not true if they think it will. >> but it won't. if the state has any vested interest it can do so without squashing a competition requiring people to spend two years and tens of thousands of dollars of cosmetology school simply to cut hair and do nails is absurd. john: they think they are at war against e little guy. >> absolutely they are. both her business and other clients have 33 -- thriving schools and tell the board came in to shut them down. john: i should point* out in the pile of 170,000 rubles that does not include state

regulatis that torture people like you. that is just the federal regulations alone. that is bad enough to state and local are as bad or worse. another example do need a place to stave a don't want to spend a ton of money? there are call options available but local regulators want to crush them. my mother made the best toffee in t world. it's delicious. so now we've turned her toffee into a business. my goal was to take an idea and make it happen. i'm jat long and i formed my toffee company through legalzoom. never reallyught i would make money doing what i love. [ robert ] we created legalzoom to help people start theibusiness and launch their dreams. go to legalzoom.com today and make your business dam a reality. at legalzoom.com we put the law on your side.

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john: my kids grow up and moveout and i have to empty rooms in my house. and they could make money but how would ey find out about my room? here is a way in tonight -- internet sites like roomorama make it easy with rating system so i can see the person who wants to rent

if the have a good reputation in they can see if i do. , stay with me. no. apparently i may not read to them legally two years ago my state passed a law that makes most apartment rental sites and what they do illegal. the founder of roomorama says she knows. jia en teo. >> a large part is short-term rentals are growing in popularit and that h some competition for hotels. john: the hotel business loses business if i read it and if they are a bigger business they have a lobbyist and they contacted leslators but t business goes on and they operate in many different countries and cities in the world. >> 5,000 cities around the world?

in 100,000 properties. >> ople are doing it anyway. >> some customers were fined $800 then they got off. john: to date 1,000 people are renting. >> yes. john: explain how it works. here is a sample a cozy private room $73. how do i know it isn't a horror movie somebo will not kill me? >> the whole idea of roomorama is transparency. pictures, reviews, and meetings even see the response time so what we're doing is putting for the customer apples to apples basis to compare thousands

at the same time and pick the one that works best for you. john: if i give the renter a hard time it appears on your side of people avoid it. >> exactly. >> $30? it is not as nice but the hotel is $200 per you started this because you travel a lot. >> my husband and i love to travel so we founded the business together because mid-20s did not want to stay in budget hotels and we thought there must me thousands of firms and how to refine them or book them. john: you started with craig's list? >> we will renter on plays when we went to wave at the same time it was very unreliable, the hassles. john: because people would change their mind? >> they would say 10 nights then when they arrived it would be i found something else.

we could not make them pay before hand because what type of credibility th have with the on-line classified? so we wanted to give them a platform and also people like us who were traveling to give them a platform to book anywhere they went. >> it has taken off and continues to grow? >> again market demand and supply and when somebody is taken off somebody new comes on. john: one legislator says it is unfair to the neighbors because you have people going in and out. we have to protect them. the hotel association says people who use your site are at risk due to safety of fire and security coerns. >> those are legitimate you want to protect consumers against skimmers and

slumlords but i think this is been a proven model that we put systems in place with ratings and reviews and feedback. john: has anybody been hurt? no. everyone has been pretty -espectable because they know it is not hotel and any of those cases could happen in a hotel. john: some towns seemed morere ready to embrace this. palm springs california has a good neighbor brochure righted discuss this to say respect the noise rules and accept the reality people want to do this. >> that should be the case all over the world. john: thank you jia en teo are the politicians in the pocketf the hotel busins or they like to regulate us to death? state legislator louis

krueger introduce the bill white can i do want to do? >> you live in a multi a family dwelling over six units and where we all live together under one roof and this came out of 10 it's all over the city biggin legislators for help. they were being harassed by strangers in the middle of the night injuring their building and moving into the apartment nextoor, bringing in crowds to party of might in the off hallways respecting no rights of the residents and violating the fire code and safety code and harassing people sometimes aggressively because every unit they could get their hands on was more monefor the company's. john: i believe there have en problems oducin nobody was happy they're not sure is getting great deals and some homeowners making

many and neighbors who like to have people in the apartment? >> i did not find any neighbors that like.. >> we spent five years of community meetings with and it's all over this city documenting the up problem. this is protecting you and your family. john: mike and the owner of the building at work this out what we need a control freak politicians to pass one rule that does not fit all? >> this ly applies if there areomplaints of nobody is complaining then nobody follows up. john: but then you could be fined $25,000. >> only if you have been doing this with the ongoing basis. and tourists think they are signing up for the hotel room they pay with credit card, they walked into a situation that i not safe,

not clean. john: but the web sites have reviews they knew what they are getting into. >> know they don't. not all of them and people have been caught making up their reviews to get people want to give them the credit card no matter how terrible the experience is, you have to pay. john: and why do they keep growing? >> because of the expansion of the internet and the fact there is a broad universe of people who occasionally come to new york city. john: new support for regulation and construction projects, bicycles on a the sidewalks and styrofoam do you repeal anything? >> yes. john: what have you rpealed ? period i have been in the nate 11 years you have to ask me to come back and i will come up with celeste. john: but forward to that. thank you liz krueger why is

kennedy running a taxi service? her customers seem happy but is it legal or will government crushed her? next.

john: today new technology makes it easier than ever to be an entrepreneur they can connect to rooms at magatte wade bell lift connects people with those that wanted taxi ride in those that have free time. everyone wins. but not the established taxi companies so they turn to government regulators for the last year california find left to offer as a public -- this is a matter

of public safety said the regulators. is lift a public safety problem? we asked kennedy to check it out she became a lift driver and had to go through a background check the in person interview that chuck of her car into insurance and after that she was approved. >> passengers are encouraged to get in the front seat because it is friendlier and they should give the fist of -- bald. >> fantastic. >> she did not put this in her car to mock me all drivers use them to identify this cars after she dropped off her passengers she checked her phone to see who else would want to ride.

>> we have another one. >> it is like fishing. welcome to the right. >> passengers save money and pay less than taxis and she de money in kingof tt and she in the passengers are happy. >> it is fine in very sociable. john: this was a good experience? >> the perfect marriagef entrepreneurship d capitalism andechnology. this was a great experience. i would use this platform it is so easy and it was really fun to be ariver. john: how does it work? it is all by credit card. >> to put the cred card information into the lift application also have a facebook account that matches the credit card number and they change it -- jack facebook friends to make sure you're not a minor or a secco. john: if there is a passenger to is a problem?

>> it is like ebay or the other companies you have the incentive to deliver good service and be a good customer you rates each other's of the passenger got out they raided me but then i rated them. >> how does the list makes many? >> i do nation. >> i don't know if it is a charitable organization how they skirt taxes are liability but on your phone you decide what the donation is there is a suggested donation and you can add not a tip that something on to that. john: if you are cheap than the next driver knows and may not pick you up. >> is another incentive to be a good customer because you are bumped up if the driver is looking for people to donate well or rate with

a high rating. john: a regulator said it is public safety threat when we get in the cars it is a concern it is on the mos interesting as we doowit some people do not want to drive and paid money every single time and it is a great alternative. >> the background check was so thorough we had to wait a week tohoot the segment because to go to the dmv in criminal background and proof of insurance social curity number and driver's license. i am a little worried. [laughter] john: why? >>, on. you know, the power of a the must negative. need you ask? see the pink mustache? i see these all over the place and that is how you know that your lift has arrive not only can you see that the car is approaching and you see that pink stache and just like you angels are singing.

john: they are expanding rapidly it sounds great. >> is a great idea it is an easy-to-use and you don't have to plow cash and th drivers and customers are thrilled with the service. john: let's hope the regulators don't kill off. once rice government has repealed regulation and the result is great. consumers save money and we this right here is the closet we were in. that was the oy thing left of the house. the only thing. red cross helped us and they've literally got us back on our feet. huge outpouring of love just going, "people care." we didn't come out of there saying, "wow, we lost everything!"

we came out of there hugging each other, glad that we were okay. ther, it puts a big smile on my face. he was so warm and loving. he died from melanoma when he was 31. every hour someone dies from melanoma. it doesn't have to be someone you love.

john: people complain about high taxes or the war on the entrepreneur ship this pile of rules is just as damaging or worse because sometimes taxes t cut but the rules never get cut they just pass more and thousands more every year is there no hope? there is because rules are never cut is not entirely true. a couple times bureaucrats have said let's repeals something and the result has been terrific. economist wayne leighton and edward lopez right about that in their book "madmen, intellectuals, and academic scribblers" what does the

title mean? >> academic scribblers are people who come up with new ideas think about professor somewhere thos ideas do nothing until they are picked up to and me made popular intellectuals may be riders with the wall street journal or new york times or a talk show host, preachers host, preachers, teachers or television show host, a john stossel. they take ideas and spread them and those are dangerous but that is something to make popular. the madmen are politicians told leaders of political power and the mad and have every incentive of the world to give them what they want. john: they are not all madman. >> it is a play on words from john maynard keynes and gave is more government spending that madman authority with voices in th air are distilling their frenzy of academic scribblers.

john: let's talk about the times when ruues were removed. airlines. >> they used to be regulated and affairs david pay in the '70s and '80s he went to the open market and good things have happened. >> from the '30s through the '70s no airline could raise the pre or change the route without permission. no new airlines were approved know jack lew or southwest was allowed to compete and this was changed by a ted kennedy? >> he was one of the madman who we saw an opportunity to be a separate set of rules to govern industry to make a name in the political career >> and that the fare is $196 of tod's dollars but was

angeles and san francisco the same distance it is less than half of that. >> fissiparous cisco market was within the state of california sun not regulated by the federal government but boston in d.c. travels across the state line the civil aeronautics board regulates to set the fares and there were higher. >> even politicians could understand that they would deregulate prices are so much lover now it is about one-third of what it was. >> look at the data across the board airline fares are down 50% that includes baggage these we pay now. john: in the '70s there was something cled the interstate commerce commission which did what? >> deregulated shipping by trucking and railroad. >> or you will be overcharged pervasive they

protect consumers but when you look at what happens shipping rates were high under the icc and once it was removed of power initially then abolished what happened to shipping rates? they went down. >> the politician said you cannot regulate. the final example one of the rare to regulatory? >> the politicians have the administrative hearing that meant one bureaucrat said you get it and this went on for decades and the federal government move to a lottery and they got the license and so then it's a little old lady went to the auction and sells it to at&t and makes millions.

john: the academics said auction them off. >> a professor goes on to win the nobel prize for opposes the idea and was ignored for officials at the sec actually mocked him. john: but yet it happened and took long and was supported by carter and reagannd president bush but finally could only happen under president clinton. >> he needed the money in clinton wanted to balance the budget and republicans in congress like to the idea where does the money come from? to be more efficient we have the final push we can raise billions of dollars let's try this. john: they canake it happen if they think bay and make money or get the democrats involved. >> that is a story. [laughter] john: how cheap is travel anthe wonderful web site

that was killed by the

john: america is filled with little businesses, good ones crushed by government. like the chinatown bus system. >> these companies are packed every hour with bargain hunting writers civic it is the most convenient way and it only

cost $1. john: the independent bus companies figured out if they pick people up right off the streets without a bus terminal they can save money to offer very cheap fares. >> passengers are pleased but the american bus association is worried that it fears the future of the motor coach industries could be threatened by low-priced chinatown buses that are dangerous operating illegally. >> companies that operate at a substantially reduced costs, one-fourth of what it would cost most operators have to be cutting corners somewhere. >> gernment quickly cited with the union bus company sandoz chinatown buses must have cut corners and quickly the u.s. duty announced they had a study thatshowed chinatown buses were a safety risk. >> seven times greater chance of fatality that is unacceptable and it will stop. john: seven times?

the government forced 27 chinatown bus companies to close. but that study that senator schumer requested turned out to be bogus the democrats' main gold the data and also counted greyhound and made other mistakes and it turns out they were about as safe as others but the truth came too late to help the entrepreneur i unhappy customers today most chinatownbusiness. one more example. intrade a prediction market people could bet on anything political elections, american idol vendors, year after year intrade predicted oscar winners it correctly. and the odds are great predictors of election results. thelast presidential election karlove was still saying this. >> data know what the ouome will be butntrade had declared obama the clear

nner as a 99 percent chance and a half hour later we said we have caed the race for president obama. for years at intrade was more accurate than all pundits on all networks and markets are accurate because they represent the wisdom of lots of people and people seouslenough to bet their own money but we can no longer rely on those wonderful intrade predictions because last year due as of mid declared intrade did not have a license required underdog frank. the government said it violated section of the act section six and 13 as amended by dr. frank and you get the idea. the full regulation is sowhere in this pile of boxes. in plain english it complained that it allowed

americans to buy commodity options without american bureaucrats permission. it seems fine and they say that is illegal. intrade might have tried to get permissionut it was a small company like the the bureaucrats would say no because at 1.they simply said prediction markets are contrary to the public interest. so intrade gave up in it is now out of business we are deprived of back rigged predictions. when gornment crushes the little guy and makes all of us pork losing chinatown buses and intrade is a visible loss. there is much more loss that is invisible because the regulations scares' entrepreneurs added even trying new things. opening a new business is hard enough that without having to fight the government to. so reduce innovation and have no idea what things we might have today if n for all these rules. the solution is to get rid of most of them and implement the stossel rule

for every new regulation passed repeal than old ones. it would be a star. that is our show. >> tucker: i do.. >> alisyn: thanks so much. see you tomorrow. >> irs, sos as the scandal keeps sizzling. some republicans are calling to scrap the agency and it' its mae tax code and bring on flat tax instead. is that the best way to prevent this mess from happening again, and get our economy booming again? hi, everybody, i'm brenda buttner. this is bulls and bears. let's get right to it. we've got gary b. smith, tobin smith, and steve murphy. welcome to everybody. so gary b., shut down the irs as we know it and replace it with a flat tax? what do you say? >> absolutely, brenda. this would be the most positive thing wve seen for is economy. i think since the iernet.